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Why, exactly, is logging in a bubble not an exploit?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 04:17:00 - [1] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 10/10/2006 04:18:29 He's allowed to (not) play EVE any way he wants. This includes using obvious-but-unpunished exploits to save a ship that never should have survived due to his carelessness otherwise. Hopefully the bug with interdictor bubbles will get eventually fixed. Until then, well... bug abuse away. Originally by: Aeaus Hmm, I was under the assumption that as soon as you attacked him he would get a fifteen minute agression countdown and wouldn't disappear from that location for fifteen minutes. He was PvP flagged, but you still warp off if able. However, if you log, you'll warp off ignoring interdictor bubbles even though you should not be able. He then proceeded to log in and out while his timer ran down so the people probing him couldnt get a fix. Its basically several exploits all used at the same time to make him all but unkillable.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 04:23:00 - [2] Originally by: Awox Because CCP don't have the balls to ban paying customers? Oh, they do. You cant really ban people for this, since it is possible that people crash (even though most situations are blatently obvious exploits of bugs in the logoff system). It would be left up to GM discretion in each case (of which there would be many), and most of the GMs just dont have judgement good enough to adjudicate these kinds of petitions. The real solution is to fix the bugs that make it possible, but dont hold your breath for that.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 05:11:00 - [3] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 10/10/2006 05:12:37 Originally by: Yoko Milan Ok, maybe someone can explain a little portion that I've missed here. Most people tell me that if you get disconected, logged or however it happens that you warp off and disapear instantly. I'm guessing from what I've read in this post so far is that yes you will just warp off and disapear unless you were agro'ed in which case you would warp off and disapear in 15 minutes. The issue at hand is that interdictor bubbles, billed as one-stop shopping for preventing warps, do not prevent emergency warps initiated by logoffs. The in-and-out to avoid probing is also annoying, but less blatently bugged. Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 What CCP needs the balls to fix id the lame mechanic of camp camping they introduced. It is weak and pathetic tactic that is shunned upon in most every other game. They caved in and made 0.0 ultra carebear land for those established out there. It shouldnt be that way 0.0 should be risky and dangerous for all not just the few willing to explore. Right now there is far too many advantages and sdafety nets for those supposedly claiming space, allowing them to reside in the space they control with too much safety, and controlling far mroe space that they deserve to hold simply due to poor design creating severe choke points. Sooner they grow a pair and remove this the soioner logging out of a gate camp will dissappear, and the sooner people will truly have to learn to be organised and handle real pvp. Thats like saying that the solution to high-sec lvl 4 missions is to disable all weapons from working on anything in high-sec. Its stupid, ignorant, and causes far more problems then it solves.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Raquel Smith I play this game to have fun. Fun does not involve losing 100 million ISK in cargo, or 500 million ISK in ships and fittings and implants. I actually got a strange sense of enjoyment when I denied Red Alliance a chance to pop a badger 2. I always love(d) evading wannabe PKs in games. Thats nice. You managed to log a badger against a few frigates/single interdictor and you think youre special. I get it - nobody wants to think of themselves as incompetent and pathetic. The logging bugs, both the PvP flag not starting after you log, and the bubble failures, need to be fixed. They've needed to be fixed for a very long time. I dont care that people on a gate will now be able to kill you if youre incompetent and you fly into them like a suicidal hummingbird. I particularly dont care if youre flying around with a (faction?) fit badger worth 500m. Its a bug, it needs to get fixed. There is no possible defense of it as anything but a bug. At least most of the people are defending their use of it as "well, as long as its here I'm going to exploit the hell out of it", which is lame, but not idiotic like "OMG GATECAMPZ R T3H SUK".
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 19:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Well, perhaps removing the deviation when logging back in from your log off spot to none instead of about 15km would solve this bubble-logging problem. Camps with legitimate reasons to be there would (defending territory) still catch the logger while those who soley play EVE to have a flashing evemail button would still be avoidable. Ehh? The 15k difference on a legitimate logon is irrelevant - repeated logon/instalogoffs to create new 1m km safespots every 30 seconds is why you cant catch anyone who manages to log out of a bubble.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 20:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Complacency''s Bane on 10/10/2006 20:17:27 Originally by: Ariel Dawn Quote: Ehh? The 15k difference on a legitimate logon is irrelevant - repeated logon/instalogoffs to create new 1m km safespots every 30 seconds is why you cant catch anyone who manages to log out of a bubble. I was refering to the point to which you warp back to when you log in, not where you warp to when you log out. This would solve the problem of people escaping from legitimate territory control bubble camps, while killmail kiddies would be denied. Ok, youre not getting this - let me see if I can explain it in small words. 15k difference from where you logout-warped from is not important. If that was the issue, noone would care. When people logout, they warp out to a 1m km safespot. Still not a problem. When people login at those 1m km safespots, they should warp back to where they logged from. However, if they login and then logout immedietely, they will warp to a new 1m km safespot. From there, they can login and warp to a different bookmark (insta, high-quality safespot, etc), or they can just repeat the logon/logoff for 15 minutes, making it so they cant be probed down and will eventually disappear when their flagging timer runs down.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 20:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Raquel Smith It was a little more substantial than that, but thanks for playing! If it was more substansial then that they'd have killed you before you got to warp. But lying is fun too. If you ever need a replacement 500m badger II, I'll sell you one for 450m - its a steal, 10% off.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.10 22:06:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Draco How is chasing someone, then catching them at a gate, a gate camp? Answer - its not, you just liek troll because you can't figure out how to play eve out side of .9 space. Honestly, hes so absurd I really think he's just some Pirate Coalition alt taking the ****. There's almost no way he could be serious and he could manage to put his pants on in the morning.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 02:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Ranar Estraad Stuff Wow, this is almost word-for-word identical to the arguments I remember from the old logging debates, about how it would be unfair if logging didnt escape you from any combat situation. The only real difference is that your argument is more limited in scope (your predecessors said that all PvPers were evil and that they deserved to be able to run from any arbitrary combat using ctrl+q), because CCP sorted out what they said would kill the game to remove. They were wrong then, youre wrong now. Logging as an escape mechanism for combat is not intended - the current situation has nothing to do with gatecamps, its simply a case where interdictor bubbles are bugged and the pvp flag is failing to activate on people who are already logged. Simple bug, simple fix.
Complacency's Bane Caldari	Posted - 2006.10.11 16:16:00 - [10] I'm sick of this topic. Dear useless logging nubs: You lost the logging debate. CCP said you were wrong. Thats why we have the PvP logoff flag. Your arguments havent changed a bit since then, theyve just reduced in scope to the last remaining logoff-exploit area. They were considered and rejected the first time, they'll be rejected again. This is a bug. Stop arguing that its intentional or appropriate, its a bug which brings back the good old days of everyone logging.

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